[ajug-members] gene t. Re: thinking about how to think
521
521 at ofig.org
Mon Sep 15 10:47:33 EDT 2008
thank you gene, i have always used a text editor for php/html; and for the last year with java; i'm new to netbeans and understand your point; i am programming w/o a plan (by the seat of my pants as you said)... as a hobbiest; that's how it is, i have finally got the basics of java/oop (after 5+ years of php/mysql procedural programming); but i have no plan... i simply want to get paid to program; i program a lot at work; but it's not in my job description; i program as it is a 'tool', the reason i have begun to 'try' to use netbeans is because i finished up the 5day Sun SL-275-SE6 last month in Alpharetta and paid for it myself ($2300) taking a week of vacation time for it; Jr. positions are very hard to find; If someone would give me a chance/shot, i would not let them down- i (so to say) think outside of the box, enjoy math, logic, learning, and am enthusiastic
at any rate, thanks for sharing that below gene, my wife tells me i'm all over the place... it's nice to be in this user-group; i've only attended one meeting and want to attend another, maybe tomorrows; expensive though as i live below atl and fuel > $4/gal.
barclay
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:00:22 -0400, Eugene Thompson wrote
> Barclay,
>
> How do you plan your software development? Your background appears to
> be process oriented; take some data and apply functions to it until to
> reach some goal, correct? But, even using that approach, how do you
> decide which functions you are going to implement and how you are
> going to organize your data structures?
>
> I'm asking these questions because I believe it would be helpful for
> you to step back and evaluate your development process. When you say
> that you find yourself writing your whole application in the button
> click event handler, that indicates to me that either 1) you don't
> understand the underlying structure of the application (a problem that
> comes from using IDEs to generate application code), 2) you are trying
> to impose one development paradigm on top of another, 3) you are
> programming without a plan (by the seat of your pants), or 4) any or
> all of the above.
>
> Some thoughts that I hope will help you:
> 1. Drop the IDE (for now). It is too easy to be overwhelmed by the
> amount of code that is generated for you. Find a text editor that you
> like (jedit or textwrangler (mac) are pretty good) and create your
> applications from scratch. This allows you to limit the code that goes
> into your application to what you've put in and means that you must
> know what the overall structure of your application is.
> 2. Forget GUI and web applications (for now). Learn the java language
> and development idioms. Write small applications that use the standard
> objects found in the SDK (Strings, Collections, etc) to become
> familiar with them.
> 3. Find a book that teaches OO design and development in a language
> agnostic way. Learn the concepts and ideas and see how they are
> applied to applications of varying sizes.
> 4. Try (and I know it is hard) not to think of one language in terms
> of another; you create artificial barriers to the learning process
> that way making it much harder to achieve your goal.
> 5. Keep asking questions - you might get more of an answer than you
> asked for (i.e. this email), but there is a lot of experience in this
> group of which to avail yourself.
>
> I hope I've given you some things to think about and maybe a little
> guidance to make your task easier. Good luck,
>
> Gene
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:31 AM, barc <521 at ofig.org> wrote:
> > nope, thanks dave- nice to read your reply... :)
> >
> > barclay
> >
> > David Page wrote:
> >> No need to be distressed - IDEs might seem to be performing some magic
> >> at this stage. Best to either accept that or defer to programming
> >> console applications to begin with.
> >>
> >> Have you considered looking at http://www.bluej.org/ ?
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:35 PM, mcdaniel <521 at ofig.org
> >> <mailto:521 at ofig.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >> i have used netbeans (or whatever ide) only a little bit; when i add a
> >> button and choose for a mouse-event_mouse-clicked, i build code in the
> >> click; i get confused; i start to build a simple program (the
> >> whole darn
> >> thing) ""in the button-click itself"" and know this is wrong from
> >> an oop
> >> standpoint; when i read about oop it
> >>
> >> ah, nevermind- when i write a program, i think about "that"
> >> problem/solution 'only' and oop seems to be designed for 'way' 'way'
> >> larger projects- i don't need all this stuff as a small project
> >> guy/hobby/volunteer/etc programmer. what am i doing? programming is
> >> just stuff; maybe i need a large project to succeed-in in order
> >> to get
> >> hired- i don't even care for jsp/html talk; why not just use php to
> >> print html; it is jnlp that has my attention; all i know is that i
> >> really like java but have nowhere to go with it AND i see its
> >> power/stength (a bit less than c++/c; but still powerful) to one-year
> >> "beginner" me java is second behind c++ (and a good rdbms- i like
> >> mysql)
> >> in terms of what-to-know/power (i don't even consider c#/microsoft) ;
> >> i'm just wasting time here in this email; if you've read this far,
> >> thanks for reading i guess...
> >>
> >> i'm going to go to my second ajug meeting soon- i met some of you at
> >> that mexican place a few months ago...
> >>
> >> barclay
> >>
> >>
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