[ajug-members] cert.

521 521 at ofig.org
Wed Jul 23 13:28:47 EDT 2008 

Experienced programmers: Is java difficult to people who have programmed for 5+ years with some sort of procedural-language and then move to java?

Barclay

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:18:33 -0400, Gary Marshall wrote
> Gee wiz Keli, you background is identical to mine: 15 years of mainframe development and some time with VB6.  Amazing. 
>   
> Coming from someone with an identical background as yours I would suggest to you to bypass the SCJA and take the time ( and you will need LOTS of time) to study for and take the SCJP.  Then, when you pass that monster exam get the SCJD.  As someone said in an earlier posting in this thread, the SCJD really makes more of an impaact on the hiring managers vs somebody who can recall Java syntax. 
>   
> Finally, do not get discouraged if you fail the SCJP exam the first or even the second time you take it, I failed it a couple of times allready.  It happens alot.  The certified Sun instructor I had in a Sun Java class I took last year told me that it is common for failure on the first go-around. 
>   
> Best of luck.  You may contact me if you like concerning your thoughts. 
> Gary 
> gwjm56 at gmail.com
> 
>   
> On 7/23/08, Keli Morgan <kjmorganjs at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> 
> Thank you for your comments everyone.  Especially Chris, who gave me hope.  I have been a COBOL mainframe programmer for over 15 years and am now looking for a junior java programming position.   I just completed a java programming course and am preparing for the exam.  I wasn't sure if the SCJP or SCJA would be better for me at this time.  I've been introduced to the java basics but am only familiar with the web and jsp.  In your opinion, should I go for the associate exam or study harder for a longer period of time and go for the programming exam?  I am working full time (as is everyone else, I'm sure), so it's going to take me more than a month to complete this task.  
>   
> I have always had a great work ethic, interact very well with others, and have the skills to bring the company great value in a short amount of time.  All I need is to get my foot in the door and prove it.  I worked on a project for over one year where I learned OO and developed a prototype using VB 6.0.  This contributed to an easier understanding of java. 
>   
> If anyone is looking for an entry level or junior java programmer (or QA tester with some java),  please respond and I will forward my resume.  I wasn't sure it would be appropriate to send my resume to everyone on the ajug-members list.  I also have a wonderful letter of recommendation from my former company.  If interested, please email at kjmorganjs at bellsouth.net. 
>   
> Thanks and have a great day. 
> --
> Keli Morgan 
> (770) 823-9265 
>   -------------- Original message from Chris Abney <Chris.Abney at theice.com>: -------------- 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that it helped me a little.  It seems to be thought of as something like 6 months worth of coding experience. 
> If I were hiring, I would think of it like that.  It's not totally dependable because people who know nothing about programming can pass the test with 'cram and jam' techniques, lots of memorization, and so forth. 
> But still I would say that it is a more dependable indication of an understanding of Java syntax than 6 months of experience on a resume.  
>   
> Unfortunatly, I think that you'll find that those (technical types) who don't have the certification discount it's value.  This may be 'sour grapes'. 
>   
> How much it helps should depend on the relevance to the desired position. 
> It should help a lot if the candidate has plenty of non-Java programming experience (particularly OO) and they are applying for a junior level Java Developer position. 
>   
> Lots of Java experience, applying for a Senior Java Developer position - not so much help. 
>   
> 
> [Tanget on - ]Unfortunately, there is an excess of offshore contractors in the US now and if you don't have much experience it is really hard to 'get your foot in the door'.
> But I know a reason for that. 
> In 1997, I interviewed several people for a C programming job that I was trying to leave gracefully after 3 years of working there. 
> I was making $30K/yr and had a Computer Engineering degree from Ga Tech so I knew that I could make more.  I really liked my boss so I wanted a good replacement for him. 
> All of the people that I interviewed were about to graduate with Tech School degrees and had no real experience.  They wanted between $40K to $50K /yr.....  Just not worth it.  I never got replaced. 
> Some kind of 'C' programming certification wouldn't have gotten them the job. 
> Our industry needs some sort of apprenticeship concept. 
> 
> [Tanget off - ] 
>   
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 521 [mailto:521 at ofig.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:03 PM
> To: ajug-members at ajug.org
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] cert.
> 
>   
> 
> Bryan/others, does having it (scjp) help with obtaining a job? 
> Barclay 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:42:04 -0400, Bryan Pauquette wrote 
> > I took it quite a while ago and I found it to be difficult also. 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:06 PM,   <Rajesha.Indurthivenkata at equifax.com> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > I agress with gary , it is a fairly tough exam and the policy of not 
> > > allowing pen and paper makes it more difficult. SO practice without a pen 
> > > and a paper 
> > > Regards 
> > > Rajesh Indurthi 
> > > Equifax InterConnect Core Team 
> > > Desk: 770 740 5233 
> > > Cell: 309 643 7665 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "Gary Marshall" <gwjm56 at gmail.com> 
> > > 
> > > 07/21/2008 04:11 PM 
> > > 
> > > Please respond to 
> > > ajug-members at ajug.org 
> > > To 
> > > ajug-members at ajug.org 
> > > cc 
> > > Subject 
> > > Re: [ajug-members] cert. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If you are fairly new to Java, study very hard.  I found it to be quite 
> > > difficult.  I used all of the over three hours they gave you to take the 
> > > test to complete about 80 something questions. 
> > > g 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 7/21/08, 521 <521 at ofig.org> wrote: 
> > > Does anyone have their scjp? If so, will you please summarize briefly how 
> > > the 
> > > test is/is-not difficult? 
> > > 
> > > barclay 
> > > 
> > > 
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