[ajug-members] Speaking of JSF... some comments...

[David Chandler]

Rick & co.,

Students in my previous JSF classes have expressed that there is
definitely a learning curve to the framework; however, by spending a
couple days in class with labs they are able to get an excellent feel
for what JSF is and isn't. After taking my class, some decide to use
it and some don't (primarily because the default implementation spits
out a lot of JavaScript, which some companies don't permit).

I promoted JSF to my company because it was the first framework I'd
found that had all the right hooks for centralized security features
such as XSS protection (for more info, see my talk from last year's
ApacheCon on Securing JSF Applications Against the OWASP Top Ten at
http://learnjsf.com/wp/security/securing-myfaces-apps-against-the-owasp-top-ten/).
I also like JSF's support for model-centric development using rich
types rather than Strings in views.

Our most senior developers, all of whom I highly respect, agreed to
try JSF for these reasons as security is central to our Internet
banking application. After 6 months of working with (and in some
cases, around) JSF, they became fans, too, and decided to move forward
with JSF rather than Struts because there aren't as many moving parts
to write. But there is no doubt that folks find it difficult to make
the switch from an action-based to an event- and component-based
framework, and there is no doubt JSF still has some quirks that
require workarounds. Thankfully, facelets saves us all from the
problems with JSPs and JSF, and Shale gives us Spring Webflow-like
pageflow capabilities.

At any rate, I think the best way to learn the pros and cons of JSF is
to spend some quality time with the framework, and on that note I
invite you to attend my upcoming JSF Jump Start class Sep 25-26 in
Alpharetta. Enter promo code AJUG when you register to save $100, and
save another $100 by registering TODAY, as it is the last day for
early bird registration. Details at learnjsf.com.

Hope to see you there,
David Chandler
678-643-1833

On 9/14/07, Burr Sutter <burrsutter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> That is the story that I've heard as well.  Facelets makes JSF very, very
> nice (even on the Sun RI).  Plus corrected some things related to AJAX
> support.
>  The biggest "win" for JSF is around components.  Think VBXs - reusable
> components that can add value to your web-based UI with minimal coding
> effort.
>
>   JBoss is/has open sourcing this kind of technology:
>  http://livedemo.exadel.com/richfaces-demo/
>
>  Now, I'm not personally sold on JSF either, however, it has improved
> dramatically with the JSF 1.2 spec, the Sun RI (and MyFaces), the open
> source available of components like Rich Faces and Facelets  -
> https://facelets.dev.java.net/ (I've tried to get Jacob Hookom to Atlanta
> before).
>  Plus JBoss has open sourced Eclipse plugins for JSF and Facelets
> editing/development:
>  http://labs.jboss.org/tools
>  http://labs.jboss.com/jbossrichfaces/
>
>  Disclaimer: My paycheck comes from JBoss who happens to like JSF and we
> have our best guy on that - Gavin King via his Seam project.  Plus we have
> Stan Silvert as an Atlanta-based JSF contributor for both Sun RI and
> MyFaces.  So this technology is moving along in a good direction.
>
>  At this point, you should take a 2 to 3 weeks and prototype using 2 or 3
> different web frameworks.  David Geary on the No Fluff Just Stuff tour often
> talks about his experiences with the various web frameworks available in the
> market.
>
>  Burr
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org]
> On Behalf Of Brian Antonelli
>  Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:19 AM
>  To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
>  Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Speaking of JSF... some comments...
>
>
>
>
> JSF by itself, especially if you're just using the RI from Sun is not that
> great. I was one of the early adopters and deployed several applications
> using JSF for Bellsouth at my previous job and there were times I wanted to
> just scream. However, with recent developments and new implementations, like
> MyFaces from Apache, it has gotten a lot better.. There are also ways to go
> "JSPless" like Facelets.. I am at Autotrader.com now and we have two
> projects utilizing JSF (using MyFaces and Facelets) and have had pretty good
> luck using these technologies..
>
>  --Brian
>
>
> On 9/14/07, Rick Reumann <rick.reumann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >From my brief time working with JSF, to be 'nice' I'll say I was not
> pleased with it. Currently, at my new place of employment some 'pointy
> heads' are considering using it for a project (for the sole reason of it
> being a 'standard' - these 'pointy heads' haven't coded in years). I'm
> working on a document voicing my objections, but I would really appreciate
> some specific comments from those that have worked with it, or have lead a
> team trying to use it, and the frustrations you've run into trying to
> implement it. Yes, I know there are posts I can google for as well, and I am
> using them as well, but I'd still appreciate any comments from this
> community. I'll be happy with any feedback (even positive feedback on the
> framework) either on-list or off-list.
>
>  Thanks so much.
>
>  --
>  Rick
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>
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>
>


-- 
David Chandler
Development Coach
learnjsf.com