[ajug-members] Speaking of JSF... some comments...

Fri Sep 14 14:45:03 EDT 2007

If you plan on using the Sun RI plan on every other tag you type being
<f:verbatim/>

On 9/14/07, Bill Siggelkow <bsiggelkow at mac.com> wrote:
>
> Modifying JSF components doesn't look like much fun either, and every time
> in the past we've tried to use any off-the-shelf components, they'd have to
> be tweaked.
>
> That is exactly the situation I ran into when trying to use JSF
> off-the-shelf components. Usually the component doesn't meet the customers
> requirements. While it may be possible to tweak them (the component, that
> is, not the customer :) extending the component and muddling through the
> vendor's API (if they even have one, which, if they do, is probably
> minimally documented) is more trouble than it is worth.
>
> I haven't used Wicket but I have heard good things about it ... for me
> personally, if I were to build a Java-based web application these days
> (which I am not -- I am currently doing RoR) I would seriously consider
> Grails or GWT.
>
> I have to say that I JSF development when I was doing it. Okay, we were
> not using Facelets nor SEAM -- straight MyFaces imp -- but I found JSF to be
> painful. I personally found the lack of control of the emitted HTML to be
> problematic ... having to use f:verbatim everywhere was a pain ... but, more
> than that, it was just a lot of work anytime changes needed to be made. JSF
> seemed to make even the simplest of things difficult.
> *
> *
> *Bill Siggelkow*
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Rick Reumann wrote:
>
> If it was up to me and we had to choose a 'component based' framework I'd
> go with Wicket. I still get a component based architecture without all the
> JSF complexity or need to run on top of anything else (ie JBoss Seam).
> Wicket's components are easily extensible as well. No xml configuration
> files either.
>
> Modifying JSF components doesn't look like much fun either, and every time
> in the past we've tried to use any off-the-shelf components, they'd have to
> be tweaked.
>
> On 9/14/07, Burr Sutter <burrsutter at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  That is the story that I've heard as well.  Facelets makes JSF very,
> > very nice (even on the Sun RI).  Plus corrected some things related to AJAX
> > support.
> > The biggest "win" for JSF is around components.  Think VBXs - reusable
> > components that can add value to your web-based UI with minimal coding
> > effort.
> >
> >  JBoss is/has open sourcing this kind of technology:
> > http://livedemo.exadel.com/richfaces-demo/
> >
> > Now, I'm not personally sold on JSF either, however, it has improved
> > dramatically with the JSF 1.2 spec, the Sun RI (and MyFaces), the open
> > source available of components like Rich Faces and Facelets  -
> > https://facelets.dev.java.net/ (I've tried to get Jacob Hookom to
> > Atlanta before).
> > Plus JBoss has open sourced Eclipse plugins for JSF and Facelets
> > editing/development:
> > http://labs.jboss.org/tools
> > http://labs.jboss.com/jbossrichfaces/
> >
> > Disclaimer: My paycheck comes from JBoss who happens to like JSF and we
> > have our best guy on that - Gavin King via his Seam project.  Plus we have
> > Stan Silvert as an Atlanta-based JSF contributor for both Sun RI and
> > MyFaces.  So this technology is moving along in a good direction.
> >
> > At this point, you should take a 2 to 3 weeks and prototype using 2 or 3
> > different web frameworks.  David Geary on the No Fluff Just Stuff tour often
> > talks about his experiences with the various web frameworks available in the
> > market.
> >
> > Burr
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:
> > ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Antonelli
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2007 11:19 AM
> > *To:* General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> > *Subject:* Re: [ajug-members] Speaking of JSF... some comments...
> >
> >
> > JSF by itself, especially if you're just using the RI from Sun is not
> > that great. I was one of the early adopters and deployed several
> > applications using JSF for Bellsouth at my previous job and there were times
> > I wanted to just scream. However, with recent developments and new
> > implementations, like MyFaces from Apache, it has gotten a lot better..
> > There are also ways to go "JSPless" like Facelets.. I am at
> > Autotrader.com now and we have two projects utilizing JSF (using MyFaces
> > and Facelets) and have had pretty good luck using these technologies..
> >
> > --Brian
> >
> > On 9/14/07, *Rick Reumann* <rick.reumann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >From my brief time working with JSF, to be 'nice' I'll say I was not
> > pleased with it. Currently, at my new place of employment some 'pointy
> > heads' are considering using it for a project (for the sole reason of it
> > being a 'standard' - these 'pointy heads' haven't coded in years). I'm
> > working on a document voicing my objections, but I would really appreciate
> > some specific comments from those that have worked with it, or have lead a
> > team trying to use it, and the frustrations you've run into trying to
> > implement it. Yes, I know there are posts I can google for as well, and I am
> > using them as well, but I'd still appreciate any comments from this
> > community. I'll be happy with any feedback (even positive feedback on the
> > framework) either on-list or off-list.
> >
> > Thanks so much.
> >
> > --
> > Rick
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
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