[ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta

Thu Aug 2 20:42:21 EDT 2007

In the UK they have something called the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme - which
attempts to do what you suggest below. As the title indicates, HSMP provides work
visas to qualified applicants who can score enough points on a qualifying test - and
then back up that score with documentation to prove you are qualified.  
http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/EN/homepage/schemes_and_programmes/hsmp.html

Australia has a similar program:
http://www.workpermit.com/australia/point_calculator.htm

Not exactly "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.." but in terms of
competition in a global economy, it seems to make more sense to qualify people based
on merit.  Over time, if we allow anyone in - and the UK and AU focus on allowing in
only highly skilled immigrants - it will be to their advantage.

Also - because these programs give people unrestricted work visas - they compete
head to head with local talent.  H1Bs are payed very low wages because they are
basically indentured servants to the company owning the visa.  They cannot just
switch companies - if they could, they would for higher rates - and the situation
would be very different.  The companies do not 'own' the talent because of the visa.
 So - programs like HSMP do not lower wages as much, and they definitely raise the
bar in terms of talent.  

My guess is that powerful corporate lobbyists prevent programs like HSMP here.  The
companies love to import cheap talent that cannot easily switch companies,  

Such a program is even more difficult to argue against.  

I have a UK HSMP visa - if anyone is interested in learning about my experience on
the UK visa program, I'm happy to share offline.

Paul

--- Burr Sutter <burrsutter at gmail.com> wrote:

> What would I say to my congressman?
> 
>  
> 
> I've already forgotten which of the visa programs which is based on a
> "lottery" system.  I personally think that stinks.  The best and brightest
> should make the cut first. As we know, a single really talented "A team
> player" can out produce 10 or more "B or C" players.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org]
> On Behalf Of Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:35 PM
> To: 'General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)'
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> 
>  
> 
> Didn't mean to start a debate.  Just wanted to point it out.  For those of
> you that see it as a negative - contact your congressman.  For those of you
> that don't, then don't.  
> 
>  
> 
> A few good points made.  Be different and better than them.  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Brian Whitfield
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org]
> On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:24 PM
> To: Keith Welch; General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> 
> Have you read the book or are these just talking points from someone else?
> Methinks you have an axe to grind... I'm stepping out of this. 
> 
>  
> 
> -dhs 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
> 
> dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
> 
> "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." 
> 
> --Einstein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Keith Welch wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friedman is an idiot, and a shill for the globalization lobby. There is NO
> job in the U.S. that can't be done cheaper with foreign labor. Conceive some
> great idea, and the first thing your investors are going to ask is how are
> you going to make sure that the are no Americans employed. Does that mean
> that we should tolerate this because it benefits the billionaires? God did
> not bestow on them some divine right to wealth at your expense. Until then,
> how do we feed our children? It will take a thousand years to bring
> third-world income up to allow fair competition not based on the poverty of
> billions.Vote people. Call you congressman. Raise hell. Vote. Contribute to
> OUR lobby:
> 
> http://www.brightfuturejobs.org
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: "Dean H. Saxe" 
> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 4:31 PM 
> To: "General AJUG membership forum ((100-200 messages/month))" 
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta 
> 
> Keith, 
> 
>  
> 
> I'd highly recommend reading Thomas Friedman's _The World is Flat_.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_is_Flat
> 
>  
> 
> FWIW, companies are not tied down to location any longer, especially when it
> comes to development. Whether Wipro is here or in CA or Timbuktu doesn't
> matter. Other organizations need to find ways to compete against them or
> find new lines of business that organizations like Wipro cannot compete in.
> To think that keeping Wipro out of Atlanta or out of the US will stop
> companies from seeking cheaper labor is wishful thinking. Companies don't,
> and shouldn't IMHO, care where the work is done, only that it is done
> correctly and for a fair price.
> 
>  
> 
> -dhs
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
> 
> dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
> 
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
> are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
> servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
> 
> -- Theodore Roosevelt
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 3:29 PM, Keith Welch wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > If you can't compete in a global marketplace then perhaps its time to find
> a new line of work
> 
> Now this is the kind of mindless slogan that we need to get rid of. Do you
> understand how stupid this statement is? NONE of us can compete with
> poverty. NONE of us can compete with people working where the median wage is
> under $2,000 a year. Our dollar is worth 10 there. Go right ahead and try to
> complete, go work for $1,999 a year somewhere. Are you inadequate because
> you can't? No, you don't have the option of doing that, because you live in
> a country where you need to make 10 times that just to eat. No amount of
> getting better at your job is going to make a difference.
> 
> Accusing someone of being incompetent because he has to pay $20K a year just
> in taxes more than the people that he has to compete? That just displays a
> lack of basic empathy. Individuals aren't the ones supposed to be able to
> "compete in a global marketplace". You can't. It is companies that are
> supposed to. Don't parrot someone else's propaganda. Your paycheck is
> already smaller because of this. I am amazed by the number of professionals
> who understand what is happening to them.
> 
> Of course, I won't even dignify the statements that increasing the supply of
> Java developers is somehow good for us with a rebuttal. Somebody must have
> missed that day in business school when the law of supply and demand were
> discussed.
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: "Dean H. Saxe" 
> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 12:30 PM 
> To: "General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)" 
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta 
> 
> I'm not exactly sure how this is bad for you, Brian. If you can't compete in
> a global marketplace then perhaps its time to find a new line of work. (No,
> I'm not targeting you in particular, I meant the statement in general.) 
> 
>  
> 
> I'd love if you can help me understand why this is bad news in your opinion.
> 
>  
> 
> -dhs
> 
>  
> 
> Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
> 
> dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
> 
> "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." 
> 
> --Einstein
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources wrote:
> 
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