[ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta

Thu Aug 2 19:06:20 EDT 2007

An L1B visa, as I understand it, is a technical visa for non-degreed technical professionals having specialized knowledge.  Typically, it has been used for lab technicians, QC technicians in manufacturing, etc.  It requires a US based company and an established legal entity in the country of origin - the relationship being subsidiary or sister companies.

An H1A is the managerial/executive equivalent. 

=============================
Scott A. Brown
President, Sability
404.521.2001
404.862.3600 - cell
Scott.Brown at sability.com

----- "Burr Sutter" <burrsutter at gmail.com> wrote:
> Keith,
> 
> I really do appreciate the passion even if I'm not as alarmed about
> the
> situation.
> 
> Overall, I wonder if IT Jobs for US citizens have grown or shrunk over
> the
> last 3 years (post Dot Boom and Bust).  It feels like we are doing
> very well
> with many, many jobs simply vacant for the lack of the right kind of
> talent.
> 
> And what is an L1 visa?  I think I understand the H1B visa and with
> its
> current number cap I don't believe it really impacts the overall
> salaries of
> talented US-based software developers. 
> 
> It is my perception that software developers are paid higher than
> average
> when compared to other college educated folks with the same numbers of
> years
> of experience.  
> 
> Please give me an industry (e.g. Accountants, car manufacturers) that
> has
> successfully lobbied the US Congress to put additional rules/taxes/etc
> on
> US-based/owned companies that offshore part of their staff?
> 
> I don't necessarily have a problem with "artificial barriers" like
> additional tariffs on imported goods because I think they service a
> purpose
> for a period of time, perhaps there is something that has been done
> for
> imported services?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org
> [mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org]
> On Behalf Of Keith Welch
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:09 PM
> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> 
> >Do you actually think that you are going to turn around or stop the
> offshoring through some unnatural act?
> 
> Unnatural act, like you calling your congressman, or congress
> actually
> voting on something that protects us? There is nothing sacred about
> deciding
> that millions need to be sacrificed for the sake of the few hundred.
> Our
> greatest enemy is your apathy.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Bill Forsyth <Bill.Forsyth at s1.com>
> >Sent: Aug 2, 2007 4:40 PM
> >To: "General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)"
> <ajug-members at ajug.org>
> >Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >
> >Yes folks. Let's be practical here (if we can experience a
> "suspension
> >of idealism" even momentarily.) 
> >
> >Do you actually think that you are going to turn around or stop the
> >offshoring through some unnatural act?
> >
> >The roles being shipped overseas are now seen as commodity roles.
> It's
> >over. (Or in the words from the movie "The Professional", "it's
> ovah!
> >Leon's dead!" (And forget the miniscule Atlanta thing since it's a
> small
> >tick in the bucket of the larger picture causing all the hurt
> feelings.)
> >So if you plan to stay in the business of being hired as an employee
> in
> >the software industry the only option you're left with is to
> >differentiate yourself somehow so that *you* are not considered to be
> a
> >commodity too. Otherwise you won't make it in the long run because
> >you're too expensive. (I wonder how long it took typewriter companies
> to
> >quit trying to make and sell them after the "new-fangled" word
> processor
> >showed up?)
> >
> >Maybe this thread could turn to a more constructive and practical
> focus
> >if people would offer ideas about differentation, self-employment,
> and
> >the like, i.e. how to roll with the inevitable and come out on top.
> Here
> >are some that come to mind:
> >
> >1. Become expert at coming trends like what I call "composite"
> >application development where you assemble open source technologies,
> add
> >some value, and align with a business need.
> >
> >2. Become expert at so-called Web 2.0 stuff like Ajax. It's coming
> >folks.
> >
> >3. Come up with your own shit and stop relying on these sorry
> >corporations to take care of you, which they won't. It will only
> >continue to get worse.
> >
> >4. Be the "entrepreneurial architect" that specializes in bringing
> >people together to get things done within a company, i.e. the person
> >that has to be there "in person."
> >
> >5. In general, lift your focus to solving business problems using
> >technology as opposed to getting more and more into the technical
> detail
> >(programmer) roles. Those are the commodity now.
> >
> >6. Become an expert lecturer on outsourcing to India (or China or
> >Russia) :). Not my cup of tea but just an idea! :D
> >
> >peace,
> >-Forsyth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org
> >[mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Justin Meads
> >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:53 PM
> >To: General AJUG membership forum ((100-200 messages/month))
> >Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >
> >Amen.
> >
> >-Justin
> >
> >On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Scott Brown wrote:
> >
> >> I certainly do enjoy a good debate- there should be more of this on
>  
> >> the list.  Anyway, having said that....
> >>
> >> 1)  It matters not if we welcome Wipro here are not.  They are
> coming.
> >>
> >> 2) There are developers in other parts of the world with the skills
>  
> >> to work at much lower cost
> >>
> >> 3) Expecting or are depending on government to step in and block  
> >> access to those markets is naive.
> >>
> >> Whether it's a good thing for Atlanta is academic.  I think the  
> >> question is how to differentiate one's self to justify the cost  
> >> premium.  There are many things that come to mind:  specialization 
> 
> >> (niche markets), vertical (industry knowledge), quality, and local 
> 
> >> access.
> >>
> >> I do think it's possible, however, it does require a solid  
> >> strategy, tactical plan and execution of that plan.
> >>
> >>
> >> =============================
> >> Scott A. Brown
> >> President, Sability
> >> 404.521.2001
> >> 404.862.3600 - cell
> >> Scott.Brown at sability.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Keith Welch" <kwelch at mindspring.com>
> >> To: ajug-members at ajug.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 3:07:40 PM (GMT-0500)
> America/New_York
> >> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >>
> >> It is Java related, as you can bet that will be a significant part 
> 
> >> of their picture. Their business model would probably involve one 
> 
> >> onshore employee (an L-1) per 5-10 working offshore doing the heavy
>  
> >> lifting. There would be 1,000 employees locally. Do the math. With 
> 
> >> enough unscrupulous employers in the area, that could locally drive
>  
> >> salaries down below the point that it would make sense to stay in 
> 
> >> the area. We have already seen a 15% drop in tech employment in  
> >> this area since 1999.
> >>
> >> You guys can sit around and pretend these Wipro people aren't  
> >> intruders intent on making a living taking food off your family's 
> 
> >> table. I won't. I have seen how this works, up close and personal. 
> 
> >> Those of you who are currently or previously sponsored should be  
> >> the MOST concerned. Companies that sponsor are much more likely to 
> 
> >> jump at offshore services. It is stupid that we are all so timid  
> >> talking about this. We all are in the same job market, and all  
> >> suffer the same consequences when there are predatory forays by  
> >> such companies as Wipro.
> >>
> >> We are all in the same situation. You can't get away from this by 
> 
> >> competing more effectively with each other. Whether you work for a 
> 
> >> company that sponsors and offshores or not, depressed salaries  
> >> affect the entire profession. Recruiters, it is pointless for you 
> 
> >> to remain silent on this, too. Cut the placements here by 25%, and 
> 
> >> cut the salaries down another 25%, and you too, are in a much  
> >> different tax bracket. I should point out that I get 5-10 calls a 
> 
> >> week from out-of-town foreign recruiters hawking Atlanta jobs, if 
> 
> >> you wonder where the low end of the business went.
> >>
> >> It is protectionism to protect companies. They are not the ones at 
> 
> >> risk here. It is depraved indifference not to protect the people  
> >> who work here, and have to pay taxes and pay the cost of living  
> >> here. That includes sponsored people. Don't let someone whip such a
>  
> >> loaded word as protectionism out on you when it is factually  
> >> inaccurate. If your company wants to sell here, but send work  
> >> offshore to avoid the cost of our taxes and cost of living, then  
> >> its business model just doesn't work. Creating policies to  
> >> selectively subsidize businesses to pursue non-sustainable business
>  
> >> activity is the real protectionism. Your legislators have simply  
> >> decided to designate us as the victims.
> >>
> >>
> >> Let me be the first to say it. Wipro, you are not welcome here.
> >>
> >> http://www.brightfuturejobs.org/news/index.cfm
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
> >> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 11:38 AM
> >> To: ajug-members at www.ajug.org
> >> Subject: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >>
> >> Not entirely java unrelated (we'll compete with these guys for
> jobs)
> >>
> >>  http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do? 
> >> command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027525
> >>
> >> I don't consider this good news.  You can bet most of them will not
>  
> >> be local Atlanta people that are hired.  I've sent the GA  
> >> congressman emails stating we should fight this.  Maybe all the  
> >> ajug members should do the same.
> >> Brian Whitfield
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "Trujillo, Marty"
> >> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 2:37 PM
> >> To: "General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)"
> >> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >>
> >> Leif,
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it's obvious that dumping 500+ java developers on the  
> >> Atlanta market would drive the price paid for an individual  
> >> developer down.  With that said (written) it's not obvious that  
> >> Wipro will be bringing 500+ developers with them.  My guess is that
>  
> >> Wipro believes that they will be able to make a nice profit by  
> >> finding contracts here (the South East) and then managing teams  
> >> (made up of people here in Atlanta and elsewhere) that will  
> >> implement those projects.  I would guess that they will try to send
>  
> >> as much work as possible to cheaper venues, but that they are  
> >> admitting that some of the work will need to be done here too.
> >>
> >>
> >> I think this is probably a positive event for developers in  
> >> Atlanta, but a negative event for developers in the US.
> >>
> >>
> >> Respectfully,
> >>
> >>
> >> Marty
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members- 
> >> bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Leif Wells
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:18 PM
> >> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> >> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
> >>
> >>
> >> Brian,
> >>
> >> I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong, nor do I know any 
> 
> >> insider information about this situation, but in reading the  
> >> article you mentioned I don't really see what large effect this  
> >> will have on our community as a whole.
> >>
> >> Are you assuming that people from other countries are going to come
>  
> >> in and take these jobs?
> >> Are you assuming that having 1000 (probably closer to 500) more  
> >> developers in Atlanta is going to make a dent in the world-wide  
> >> Enterprise Java market talent shortage?
> >> Do you think, since the article cites the "labor force and  
> >> proximity to technical schools" as reasons for choosing Atlanta,  
> >> that they will be poaching your clients or employees?
> >>
> >> I am just trying to get a handle on why you'd think that more local
>  
> >> options Java developers (both the inexperienced and the highly  
> >> experienced) makes for bad news.
> >>
> >> Seriously, I would like to better understand why this would be
> bad.
> >>
> >> Leif
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/2/07, Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources <  
> >> brian_whitfield at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> There are LOTS of reasons this is bad.  I'll give a big one - If  
> >> there is a company in Atlanta that has hundreds of java developers 
> 
> >> working for rates typically below those of American workers - what 
> 
> >> do you think that does for rates/salaries, etc?  If all of a sudden
>  
> >> the market is flooded with java people - what does that do for  
> >> supply and demand?  This can and will affect the IT market in  
> >> Atlanta.  It has to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of 
> 
> >> the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and  
> >> confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended  
> >> recipient or an authorized representative of the intended  
> >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this 
> 
> >> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this  
> >> communication in error, notify the sender immediately by return  
> >> email and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> ajug-members at ajug.org
> >> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
> >
> >
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> 
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