[ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
Dean H. Saxe
dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
Thu Aug 2 17:02:35 EDT 2007
Make yourself stand out from your peers by improving your skills and
bringing novel skills to the table if you want to have some defense
against this. Otherwise I just think this is a bit of whining.
Nobody is guaranteed a job in any particular field. If the field
moves offshore there will be new opportunities that open up here
which can't be filled by offshore workers.
-dhs
Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt
On Aug 2, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Keith Welch wrote:
> Uh, maybe you didn't get the memo. They will NOT be hiring natives
> as developers to any major extent. They will hire native project
> managers, perhaps. I have seen them do that. I cannot believe the
> absolute naivete I see among development people. Doesn't anyone
> understand that bringing in cheap L-1s and H-1bs is the point of
> this move? These guys are coming to make a profit, not bask in Java
> one-ness. Everyone seems to be using any rationalization they can
> think of to deny the obvious.
>
> I saw how the Wipro people work. They bring in L-1's and H-1b's to
> front for their offshore operation, and rotate them back to India
> so that they can bring in more people to train at their client's
> expense. That is not conjecture. I have been there. I have seen
> them. Satyam and Wipro doing this is why no GE (as in the largest
> company in America) business unit hires very few American software
> people anymore. I expect for the people who are profiting by this
> to try to diminish how bad this is. I'm just amazed at how "They
> haven't managed to offshore my job yet" translates into "This is a
> good thing for me" for some of you.
>
> The ITAA claims that they are going to offshore the majority of
> remaining software development jobs between now and 2015, unless we
> stop them. If you don't know who the ITAA is, then you don't
> deserve to be commenting on this topic. NASCOM (same admonition)
> claims that we are violating international law by not allowing a
> completely unfettered flow of perhaps a million of software
> developers into the US. Ponder that for a moment. There are only
> 600,000 here now. Polish up on those spatula skills.
>
> Before someone chimes in an claims that he would embrace them as
> brothers (oh, please spare me), or that would make the U.S. more
> competitive, bear in mind that you would be embracing them
> permanently unemployment. Political correctness is a major
> impediment to rational discussion, here. Opposing corrupt practices
> and economic irresponsibility does not make you a racist (I'm
> curious as to what race that would be opposing, as there are H-1b's
> and L-1s of every possible variation - including English-speaking
> caucasians). Software developement people are second-class citizens
> in the country, exposed directly to international wage competition
> like no one else. That includes sponsored people. Our common enemy
> is offshoring. Stop deluding yourselves.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Burr Sutter
> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 3:57 PM
> To: "'General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)'"
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
> I'm not getting the "big deal" here.
>
> If Wipro tries to hire 1000 people in Atlanta it should drive up
> salaries. There are not 1000 talented people in the unemployment
> line here in Atlanta. Now if they plan to also build some sort of
> low rent apartment complex where 4 programmers live in a single
> room and import all of those 1000 people then that is another
> story. Otherwise, I'm not sure how they'll escape paying the
> market rate for Atlanta-based talent.
>
> Keep in mind, all of those "foreigners" (and the article suggests
> they wish to hire local talent, not import offshore talent) will
> eventually learn to like living in single-family homes, going to
> Braves games, drinking $4 beverages from Starbucks, flat-screen
> TVs, just like the rest of us 2nd/3rd/4th generation Americans.
>
> The most negatively impacted would be Accenture, Unisys, IBM Global
> Services, etc since WiPro is a competitor of theirs. The smaller
> consulting companies should continue to offer their special valued
> added services at reasonable rates.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members-
> bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM
> To: 'General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)'
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
>
>
> There are LOTS of reasons this is bad. I'll give a big one - If
> there is a company in Atlanta that has hundreds of java developers
> working for rates typically below those of American workers - what
> do you think that does for rates/salaries, etc? If all of a sudden
> the market is flooded with java people - what does that do for
> supply and demand? This can and will affect the IT market in
> Atlanta. It has to.
>
>
>
> I'll be ok. I'm not for total 'protectionism'. I am also not for
> the 9-10 companies that dominate the use of h1 visas under the
> guise they couldn't find any workers in America (of which Wipro is
> one of them).
>
>
>
> Brian Whitfield
> Essential Resources
> phone: 770-271-3755
> tollfree: 866-837-3755
> fax: 770-271-9739
> brianw at essentialresources.net
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members-
> bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:31 PM
> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
> I'm not exactly sure how this is bad for you, Brian. If you can't
> compete in a global marketplace then perhaps its time to find a new
> line of work. (No, I'm not targeting you in particular, I meant the
> statement in general.)
>
>
>
> I'd love if you can help me understand why this is bad news in your
> opinion.
>
>
>
> -dhs
>
>
>
> Dean H. Saxe, CISSP, CEH
>
> dean at fullfrontalnerdity.com
>
> "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak
> minds."
>
> --Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Not entirely java unrelated (we'll compete with these guys for jobs)
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?
> command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027525
>
> I don't consider this good news. You can bet most of them will not
> be local Atlanta people that are hired. I've sent the GA
> congressman emails stating we should fight this. Maybe all the ajug
> members should do the same.
>
> Brian Whitfield
>
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