[ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta

Keith Welch kwelch at mindspring.com
Thu Aug 2 16:54:57 EDT 2007 

There is this thing called VOTING....

-----Original Message-----
>From: Justin Meads <justin at holabola.com>
>Sent: Aug 2, 2007 3:52 PM
>To: "General AJUG membership forum ((100-200 messages/month))" <ajug-members at ajug.org>
>Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
>Amen.
>
>-Justin
>
>On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Scott Brown wrote:
>
>> I certainly do enjoy a good debate- there should be more of this on  
>> the list.  Anyway, having said that....
>>
>> 1)  It matters not if we welcome Wipro here are not.  They are coming.
>>
>> 2) There are developers in other parts of the world with the skills  
>> to work at much lower cost
>>
>> 3) Expecting or are depending on government to step in and block  
>> access to those markets is naive.
>>
>> Whether it's a good thing for Atlanta is academic.  I think the  
>> question is how to differentiate one's self to justify the cost  
>> premium.  There are many things that come to mind:  specialization  
>> (niche markets), vertical (industry knowledge), quality, and local  
>> access.
>>
>> I do think it's possible, however, it does require a solid  
>> strategy, tactical plan and execution of that plan.
>>
>>
>> =============================
>> Scott A. Brown
>> President, Sability
>> 404.521.2001
>> 404.862.3600 - cell
>> Scott.Brown at sability.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Keith Welch" <kwelch at mindspring.com>
>> To: ajug-members at ajug.org
>> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 3:07:40 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
>> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>>
>> It is Java related, as you can bet that will be a significant part  
>> of their picture. Their business model would probably involve one  
>> onshore employee (an L-1) per 5-10 working offshore doing the heavy  
>> lifting. There would be 1,000 employees locally. Do the math. With  
>> enough unscrupulous employers in the area, that could locally drive  
>> salaries down below the point that it would make sense to stay in  
>> the area. We have already seen a 15% drop in tech employment in  
>> this area since 1999.
>>
>> You guys can sit around and pretend these Wipro people aren't  
>> intruders intent on making a living taking food off your family's  
>> table. I won't. I have seen how this works, up close and personal.  
>> Those of you who are currently or previously sponsored should be  
>> the MOST concerned. Companies that sponsor are much more likely to  
>> jump at offshore services. It is stupid that we are all so timid  
>> talking about this. We all are in the same job market, and all  
>> suffer the same consequences when there are predatory forays by  
>> such companies as Wipro.
>>
>> We are all in the same situation. You can't get away from this by  
>> competing more effectively with each other. Whether you work for a  
>> company that sponsors and offshores or not, depressed salaries  
>> affect the entire profession. Recruiters, it is pointless for you  
>> to remain silent on this, too. Cut the placements here by 25%, and  
>> cut the salaries down another 25%, and you too, are in a much  
>> different tax bracket. I should point out that I get 5-10 calls a  
>> week from out-of-town foreign recruiters hawking Atlanta jobs, if  
>> you wonder where the low end of the business went.
>>
>> It is protectionism to protect companies. They are not the ones at  
>> risk here. It is depraved indifference not to protect the people  
>> who work here, and have to pay taxes and pay the cost of living  
>> here. That includes sponsored people. Don't let someone whip such a  
>> loaded word as protectionism out on you when it is factually  
>> inaccurate. If your company wants to sell here, but send work  
>> offshore to avoid the cost of our taxes and cost of living, then  
>> its business model just doesn't work. Creating policies to  
>> selectively subsidize businesses to pursue non-sustainable business  
>> activity is the real protectionism. Your legislators have simply  
>> decided to designate us as the victims.
>>
>>
>> Let me be the first to say it. Wipro, you are not welcome here.
>>
>> http://www.brightfuturejobs.org/news/index.cfm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
>> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 11:38 AM
>> To: ajug-members at www.ajug.org
>> Subject: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>>
>> Not entirely java unrelated (we'll compete with these guys for jobs)
>>
>>  http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do? 
>> command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027525
>>
>> I don't consider this good news.  You can bet most of them will not  
>> be local Atlanta people that are hired.  I've sent the GA  
>> congressman emails stating we should fight this.  Maybe all the  
>> ajug members should do the same.
>> Brian Whitfield
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Trujillo, Marty"
>> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 2:37 PM
>> To: "General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)"
>> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>>
>> Leif,
>>
>>
>> I think it’s obvious that dumping 500+ java developers on the  
>> Atlanta market would drive the price paid for an individual  
>> developer down.  With that said (written) it’s not obvious that  
>> Wipro will be bringing 500+ developers with them.  My guess is that  
>> Wipro believes that they will be able to make a nice profit by  
>> finding contracts here (the South East) and then managing teams  
>> (made up of people here in Atlanta and elsewhere) that will  
>> implement those projects.  I would guess that they will try to send  
>> as much work as possible to cheaper venues, but that they are  
>> admitting that some of the work will need to be done here too.
>>
>>
>> I think this is probably a positive event for developers in  
>> Atlanta, but a negative event for developers in the US.
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>>
>> Marty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members- 
>> bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Leif Wells
>> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:18 PM
>> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
>> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>>
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong, nor do I know any  
>> insider information about this situation, but in reading the  
>> article you mentioned I don't really see what large effect this  
>> will have on our community as a whole.
>>
>> Are you assuming that people from other countries are going to come  
>> in and take these jobs?
>> Are you assuming that having 1000 (probably closer to 500) more  
>> developers in Atlanta is going to make a dent in the world-wide  
>> Enterprise Java market talent shortage?
>> Do you think, since the article cites the "labor force and  
>> proximity to technical schools" as reasons for choosing Atlanta,  
>> that they will be poaching your clients or employees?
>>
>> I am just trying to get a handle on why you'd think that more local  
>> options Java developers (both the inexperienced and the highly  
>> experienced) makes for bad news.
>>
>> Seriously, I would like to better understand why this would be bad.
>>
>> Leif
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/2/07, Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources <  
>> brian_whitfield at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> There are LOTS of reasons this is bad.  I'll give a big one - If  
>> there is a company in Atlanta that has hundreds of java developers  
>> working for rates typically below those of American workers - what  
>> do you think that does for rates/salaries, etc?  If all of a sudden  
>> the market is flooded with java people - what does that do for  
>> supply and demand?  This can and will affect the IT market in  
>> Atlanta.  It has to.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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