[ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta

Justin Meads justin at holabola.com
Thu Aug 2 15:52:58 EDT 2007 

Amen.

-Justin

On Aug 2, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Scott Brown wrote:

> I certainly do enjoy a good debate- there should be more of this on  
> the list.  Anyway, having said that....
>
> 1)  It matters not if we welcome Wipro here are not.  They are coming.
>
> 2) There are developers in other parts of the world with the skills  
> to work at much lower cost
>
> 3) Expecting or are depending on government to step in and block  
> access to those markets is naive.
>
> Whether it's a good thing for Atlanta is academic.  I think the  
> question is how to differentiate one's self to justify the cost  
> premium.  There are many things that come to mind:  specialization  
> (niche markets), vertical (industry knowledge), quality, and local  
> access.
>
> I do think it's possible, however, it does require a solid  
> strategy, tactical plan and execution of that plan.
>
>
> =============================
> Scott A. Brown
> President, Sability
> 404.521.2001
> 404.862.3600 - cell
> Scott.Brown at sability.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Welch" <kwelch at mindspring.com>
> To: ajug-members at ajug.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 3:07:40 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
> It is Java related, as you can bet that will be a significant part  
> of their picture. Their business model would probably involve one  
> onshore employee (an L-1) per 5-10 working offshore doing the heavy  
> lifting. There would be 1,000 employees locally. Do the math. With  
> enough unscrupulous employers in the area, that could locally drive  
> salaries down below the point that it would make sense to stay in  
> the area. We have already seen a 15% drop in tech employment in  
> this area since 1999.
>
> You guys can sit around and pretend these Wipro people aren't  
> intruders intent on making a living taking food off your family's  
> table. I won't. I have seen how this works, up close and personal.  
> Those of you who are currently or previously sponsored should be  
> the MOST concerned. Companies that sponsor are much more likely to  
> jump at offshore services. It is stupid that we are all so timid  
> talking about this. We all are in the same job market, and all  
> suffer the same consequences when there are predatory forays by  
> such companies as Wipro.
>
> We are all in the same situation. You can't get away from this by  
> competing more effectively with each other. Whether you work for a  
> company that sponsors and offshores or not, depressed salaries  
> affect the entire profession. Recruiters, it is pointless for you  
> to remain silent on this, too. Cut the placements here by 25%, and  
> cut the salaries down another 25%, and you too, are in a much  
> different tax bracket. I should point out that I get 5-10 calls a  
> week from out-of-town foreign recruiters hawking Atlanta jobs, if  
> you wonder where the low end of the business went.
>
> It is protectionism to protect companies. They are not the ones at  
> risk here. It is depraved indifference not to protect the people  
> who work here, and have to pay taxes and pay the cost of living  
> here. That includes sponsored people. Don't let someone whip such a  
> loaded word as protectionism out on you when it is factually  
> inaccurate. If your company wants to sell here, but send work  
> offshore to avoid the cost of our taxes and cost of living, then  
> its business model just doesn't work. Creating policies to  
> selectively subsidize businesses to pursue non-sustainable business  
> activity is the real protectionism. Your legislators have simply  
> decided to designate us as the victims.
>
>
> Let me be the first to say it. Wipro, you are not welcome here.
>
> http://www.brightfuturejobs.org/news/index.cfm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources
> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 11:38 AM
> To: ajug-members at www.ajug.org
> Subject: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
> Not entirely java unrelated (we'll compete with these guys for jobs)
>
>  http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do? 
> command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027525
>
> I don't consider this good news.  You can bet most of them will not  
> be local Atlanta people that are hired.  I've sent the GA  
> congressman emails stating we should fight this.  Maybe all the  
> ajug members should do the same.
> Brian Whitfield
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Trujillo, Marty"
> Sent: Aug 2, 2007 2:37 PM
> To: "General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)"
> Subject: RE: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
> Leif,
>
>
> I think it’s obvious that dumping 500+ java developers on the  
> Atlanta market would drive the price paid for an individual  
> developer down.  With that said (written) it’s not obvious that  
> Wipro will be bringing 500+ developers with them.  My guess is that  
> Wipro believes that they will be able to make a nice profit by  
> finding contracts here (the South East) and then managing teams  
> (made up of people here in Atlanta and elsewhere) that will  
> implement those projects.  I would guess that they will try to send  
> as much work as possible to cheaper venues, but that they are  
> admitting that some of the work will need to be done here too.
>
>
> I think this is probably a positive event for developers in  
> Atlanta, but a negative event for developers in the US.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
> Marty
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org [mailto:ajug-members- 
> bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Leif Wells
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:18 PM
> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] Wipro coming to Atlanta
>
>
> Brian,
>
> I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong, nor do I know any  
> insider information about this situation, but in reading the  
> article you mentioned I don't really see what large effect this  
> will have on our community as a whole.
>
> Are you assuming that people from other countries are going to come  
> in and take these jobs?
> Are you assuming that having 1000 (probably closer to 500) more  
> developers in Atlanta is going to make a dent in the world-wide  
> Enterprise Java market talent shortage?
> Do you think, since the article cites the "labor force and  
> proximity to technical schools" as reasons for choosing Atlanta,  
> that they will be poaching your clients or employees?
>
> I am just trying to get a handle on why you'd think that more local  
> options Java developers (both the inexperienced and the highly  
> experienced) makes for bad news.
>
> Seriously, I would like to better understand why this would be bad.
>
> Leif
>
>
>
> On 8/2/07, Brian Whitfield / Essential Resources <  
> brian_whitfield at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> There are LOTS of reasons this is bad.  I'll give a big one - If  
> there is a company in Atlanta that has hundreds of java developers  
> working for rates typically below those of American workers - what  
> do you think that does for rates/salaries, etc?  If all of a sudden  
> the market is flooded with java people - what does that do for  
> supply and demand?  This can and will affect the IT market in  
> Atlanta.  It has to.
>
>
>
>
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