[ajug-members] Re: web frameworks (was: Entry Level Java Jobs)

[Angus Berry]

Lee,

Are you saying that you prefer Tapestry/Spring/(Some Persistence) over
SpringMVC/Spring/(Some Persistence) (Spring being the 'object' layer).

Have you found anything that you miss in Tapestry that you have used in
SpringMVC, bearing in mind your post below looks like you've gone
further with SpringMVC than Tapestry.

thanks... Angus

On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 14:56, Grey.Lee wrote:
> I've become a bit of a Tapestry evangelist, even though I'm still
> finishing up a Spring MVC application.  Tapestry is a refreshing
> departure from the various Struts-like MVC frameworks.  I've blogged a
> bit about it:
> 
> http://www.leegrey.com/hmm/2004/08/27/1093639230000.html
> http://www.leegrey.com/hmm/2004/08/23/1093309508000.html
> (There are a couple of links here, including the free chapter from
> Tapestry in Action, which is a great introduction.)
> 
> I've always found the web layer to be awkward and unnatural, in
> comparison to the rest of my OO code.  Even with the help of JSTL/EL,
> JSP tags are IMHO ugly and tedious to work with.  Even Velocity is a
> just a cleaner syntax on top of a problematic architecture.  It's kind
> of like the impedance mismatch you have when going from objects to a
> relational database.  The web layer gives you similar pain.  I'm a happy
> coder until it comes time to do the web presentation.  It takes me out
> of the zone.
> 
> Tapestry does a good job of bringing the presentation layer into the
> realm of real code, reduces the amount of glue code you have to write,
> and makes sense in both the service layer and the presentation layer.
> 
> Best of luck,
> Lee Grey
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org
> [mailto:ajug-members-bounces at ajug.org] On Behalf Of Paul Philion
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:52 AM
> To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month)
> Subject: [ajug-members] Re: web frameworks (was: Entry Level Java Jobs)
> 
> Question: Any recommendations on "major web frameworks"? Specifically, 
> I'm looking for something based on pure servlets/JSP, that supports 
> (enforces) an efficient MVC, is readily extensible and provides robust 
> user management and ACL support.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> Note: This is actually a follow-on to the content management stuff I 
> asked a few weeks ago. I settled on SnipSnap, wrote a whole bunch of 
> extensions for it, and no I feel that it is a little too limiting (in 
> terms of dynamic presentation and overall content model), so now I'm 
> falling back to a robust Web Application Framework.
> 
> - Paul Philion
> 
> Brian Lee wrote:
> > Struts (or some other major web framework) is required for web apps 
> > nowadays. If you're still writing apps in JSP/Servlet there must be
> some 
> > pretty major reason you aren't using Struts/Cocoon/Spring/WebWork/etc.
> > 
> > I also think the same goes for JDBC, if you're writing straight JDBC 
> > instead of using Hibernate/iBATIS/BC4J/JDO or even EJB without some 
> > serious consideration then there's probably some problem with the 
> > architects at your site.
> 
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