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Re: IDE on Linux

Eclipse is picky because the GUI is based on SWT = a native toolkit (as 
opposed to Swing which is light weight and emulate). For me, this is it's 
biggest strength because once it is running, it fits in perfectly with the 
desktop environment and is totally indistinguishable from native 
applications. Being native, it is provides for a very snappy user 
interface. I did initially try Netbeans/Forte but thought this was a 
complete hog (admittedly, Eclipse is no slim Jim either ;-)

Linux consistency is an issue. For example, my Linux != your Linux, whereas 
my Windows XP == your Windows XP.

A developer's environment is a personal thing. The good thing is with Java 
we have a choice. Our choices should not be inflicted and forced upon 
others. If someone insists on using Notepad and the DOS prompt to knock out 
Java code - fair play to them. I too used to use Emacs + JDE. Over the 
years, I've never been a big fan of IDEs. I have flirted with them in the 
past but didn't like losing aspects of control to the IDE. I converted to 
Eclipse because a) it's free b) it's stable c) all the major tool vendors 
have signed up to the Eclipse consortium d) it is unobtrusive e) it is 
extensible f) gazillions of plug-ins are available g) It is powerful h) It 
integrates exceptionally well with Ant, CVS and JUnit i) I like the code 
assist features j) It is not based on Swing h) It is not bloated - I plug 
in what I want i) It has a future.

At 09:26 AM 4/6/2003 -0400, Cynthia Jeness wrote:
>My question still is why you care about running Eclipse if it is so picky 
>about the environment in which it runs.    I had it running on RedHat 7.1 
>and the Motif version actually installed and ran correctly on this version 
>of RedHat.   However, I did not particularly like it because, among other 
>things,  it seemed cumbersome to set up appropriate directory 
>structures.  I am sure that with enough effort I could have coerced 
>Eclipse to do what I wanted.  But why bother?  Fundamentaly, I do not like 
>tools which try to impose their own structure on how I program.  The final 
>straw was how "closed" their whole support mechanism is.
>The only reason that I tried Eclipse at all is because I had a group of 
>neophyte Java programmers to mentor and I wanted to find a tool which 
>might help them.  (I personally use Emacs plus JDE and have always been 
>happy with that solution.)  So I downloaded all of the ones I heard about 
>on various mailing lists - Eclipse, IntelliJ, NetBeans, JEdit.
>Part of the evaluation process related to how much effort it took to 
>install and be productive on the tool.  If the tool did not install 
>correctly and work out of the box without a lot of special effort, then I 
>rejected it.  To me "special effort" meant more than an hour.
>Initially, on RedHat 7.1 and on Windows, Eclipse passed the install 
>test.  So I turned it over to two of the brighter programmers in my 
>group.  These are very experienced C++ programmers and are only neophytes 
>in the Java sense.  I asked them to determine how to set up a particular 
>directory structure, integrate with Ant and CVS and then prepare 
>instructions for doing this for the rest of the group.  After about two 
>weeks, they still had not determined how to do what I asked within the 
>confines of Eclispse.  In fact, they told me that it was not possible.  At 
>that point, I decided to pursue it further myself, but I had upgraded to a 
>new computer with RedHat 8.0.  To my chagrin, I could not even get Eclipse 
>to run.   I was working on this over the weekend in Alpharetta and the 
>company turns off its email on the weekend.  I tried to register for the 
>Eclispse mailing list so I could ask some questions, but I could not do 
>this because I needed to read an email.  My Google searches only turned up 
>negative things about Eclipse and RedHat 8.0.
>I have heard good things about IntelliJ, but was "offended" when my Linux 
>installation of IntelliJ tried to load InternetExplorer.  Since IntelliJ 
>costs money, it would have been a hard sell anyway.  I did take the time 
>to report my issue to IntelliJ so that they could avoid offending 
>non-Windows users in the future, but they never responded.
>Both NetBeans and JEdit installed easily and were easy to master in a 
>short period of time.
>Of course, I am the wrong person to evaluate IDE's because I prefer to 
>control and understand what is going on when I build and deploy Java 
>programs.  When I actually work with clients, it has frequently been on 
>AIX  and occasionally IBM mainframe computers where my only tool to debug 
>deployment problems has been the command line and the "vi" editor over a 
>terminal connection.
>Thanks for responding about your installation issues with Eclipse.
>Jason Chambers wrote:
>>  I must admit, I was frustrated when I first tried to get Eclipse 
>> working. Here's my story. I first downloaded the Gtk build (2.0). Since 
>> the download was a .zip file, I thought I'd expand it using jar xvf. 
>> Although this expanded all the files for me, Eclipse wouldn't start. 
>> Finally, I found that I need to use unzip. Then I had issues with Gtk 
>> since I didn't have the latest Gtk libraries with SuSE 8.0. I tried to 
>> grab them and build them myself. It turned out to be a tremendous 
>> headache (I'm quite happy to pay RedHat/SuSE a few dollars to save me 
>> from such integration headaches). So, then I turned to the Motif 
>> version. Finally, I got it working. Trouble is, I wasn't happy with the 
>> Motif version.
>>I recently upgraded to SuSE 8.1. I thought I'd give the Gtk version one 
>>more try. It worked and continues to work a treat. I'm glad I stuck with 
>>it. I was pretty close to moving to either Windows or to OS X.
>>At 10:06 PM 4/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>>I did use "unzip" to unzip the Eclipse distribution.  In fact, I used 
>>>exactly the same technique on RedHat 7.1 where it did run correctly and 
>>>RedHat 8.0 where it would not start at all.  However, I was using the 
>>>Motif version.  Perhaps, this is the source of the problem.
>>>Searches on the mailing list for Eclipse and RedHat 8.0 produced a 
>>>number of issues with regard  to both the Gtk and the Motif version in 
>>>terms of controls being misplaced on the display.  The consensus was 
>>>that the Gtk version had fewer problems than the Motif version.    Being 
>>>a Java developer, I strive to make my software run on all platforms and 
>>>all reasonable versions of Linux.  So, I expect my tools to follow the 
>>>same philosophy.
>>>Jason Chambers wrote:
>>>>Eclipse on Linux is absolutely fantastic. If you can, use the Gtk build 
>>>>and avoid the Motif build.
>>>>If you are doing Web app development using Tomcat, the Sysdeo Tomcat
>>>>Launcher plugin, http://www.sysdeo.com/eclipse/tomcatPlugin.html and 
>>>>also SolarEclipse plugin http://sourceforge.net/projects/solareclipse/ 
>>>>are what you need.
>>>>Plus get your hands on Ant, JUnit and CVS and you have one kick-a*** 
>>>>development environment.
>>>>Remember, when you download the zip do not use jar xvf - use unzip. 
>>>>This is probably the reason why Cindy had trouble starting Eclipse. 
>>>>Also, for the Gtk build, you need a fairly recent modern distro (I use 
>>>>SuSE 8.1 since 8.0 didn't have the necessary dependencies).
>>>>At 02:25 PM 4/3/2003 -0500, John Wells wrote:
>>>>>Ummm....I've been running Eclipse on Red Hat 8 since RH8 was first
>>>>>released.  I use it everyday.  It works quite nicely.
>>>>> > When I tried to run the latest trial version of IntelliJ on RedHat 8.0,
>>>>> > I was unable to run the HelpBrowser because it was actually trying to
>>>>> > launch the Internet Explorer executable.  I complained to IntteliJ, but
>>>>> > they did not respond.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Also, Eclipse does not run correctly on RedHat 8.0.  It will run
>>>>> > correctly  on RedHat 7.1.  I don't know about releases in between.
>>>>> > I say that it does not run correctly, I mean that it will not even
>>>>> > start.  Since the mailing list and help process on Eclipse was so
>>>>> > extremely "closed" for an open source project, I did not pursue this
>>>>> > issue.   I did scan the newsgroups  and saw that others were having
>>>>> > problems with Eclipse under Linux.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > NetBeans runs OK but is somewhat overkill.  I actually like JEdit.  At
>>>>> > least for me, it seems to run reliably on all versions of Linux and 
>>>>> does
>>>>> > not require a large time commitment to get started using it.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Cindy Jeness
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> From: Jon Steelman <jon@cc.gatech.edu>
>>>>> >> Date: 2003/04/03 Thu AM 11:06:21 EST
>>>>> >> To: Milind Patil <milindpatil@gmx.net>,  ajug-members@ajug.org
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: IDE on Linux
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Milind Patil wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >Hi ,
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >Can anyone recommend an IDE on Linux platform.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> IDEA works great on Linux.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Jon
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>