RE: Certification value (was Bitwise operators)

["Wade Steele" <wsteele3@csc.com>]

This discussion is getting off track a bit.  I don't think that anyone has
said anything to discourage taking the certification.  The discussion has
now snowballed to the point where people are twisting things to mean that
certifications of all kinds, from Microsoft technologies, to being a pilot
or surgeon, are not worth it because of some developers' view on the SCJP
exam.    Let's not flip the topic around.  The bottom line is, what the
industry's perceived value is of THAT particular certification.  Some carry
more weight than others.  Of course there are going to be exceptions of
companies that hired someone because they have a SCJP cert, or because
someone knows alot of acronyms.

Like someone has mentioned, they show that the person has initiative to
learn.  Which is a good thing, but not a reason to hire alone.   When it
comes to java programming, (AND IN THIS INSTANCE, I MEAN JAVA PROGRAMMING
ALONE) the SCJP is, more than likely, not going to be what gets you a java
programming job.  It's experience.  For a J2EE design position, perhaps the
SCEA holds more weight.  And it probably does.  But nobody is saying that
ALL certifications of all kinds are pointless.  They all have their
purpose, and can impact a job search in different ways.

Just my opinion though,

Wade



                                                                                                                                       
                      "Gudavalli,                                                                                                      
                      Manidhar"                To:      Ajug-Members <ajug-members@www.ajug.org>                                       
                      <manidhar.gudava         cc:                                                                                     
                      lli                      Subject: RE: Certification value (was Bitwise operators)                                
                      @eds.com>                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                       
                      02/24/2003 11:45                                                                                                 
                      AM                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




Recently my friend went for job interview. He had 15 certifications in
microsoft related techonlogy with 6yrs of experience. They asked him to
develop a web page which include database design and develop the entire one
page application in 3hrs . He used his knowledge where he never worked
apart
from His streghts and was able to get the job with 30% increase. He got lot
of interviews mainly beacuse of certifications. And he was able to manage
interviews with his experience plus the knowledge he gained during
certification. My two cents. Never dicourage a person who wants to take
certification. And never hire a person solely on certification.
thank
MANI

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott P. Smith [mailto:ssmith@scott-smith.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:31 AM
To: ajug-members@www.ajug.org
Subject: Re: Certification value (was Bitwise operators)


Good point.

My sister-in-law is a dentist.  She had to pass 4 or 5 practical tests
including work on a live patient before she was allowed to practice.  The
tests are spread out over several days.  Each one takes about a day.

Practical tests for Java would have a lot more meaning to me.  For example,
you could have a 2 day test where you are given a requirements doc and
'locked in a room' with a computer until you design and implement a
solution.  Then an 'expert' tests and analyses your implementation.

The bad thing about these kinds of test are that they are expensive.  I
think it costs my sister-in-law about $5,000.  Considering how broad and
deep the software engineering field is, you could probably come up with
1,000 such $5,000 tests.  It becomes unworkable.

And even if someone did come up with tests like these, it would be hard to
overcome the anti-certification bias of people like me.  I would assume it
was the same old multiple choice test.

Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Smith" <chsmith@speakeasy.net>
To: "Marty Harvey" <martyharvey@bellsouth.net>
Cc: <ajug-members@www.ajug.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Certification value (was Bitwise operators)


> >
> >> I will probably offend many people by saying this, but I place no
> >> value in
> >> being certified.
> >
> I agree regarding SCJP.   Referring to beyond SCJP, analogously I'm glad
> the
> American Medical Assoc. doesn't feel that getting a BS in biology is
> sufficient
> to be an effective brain surgeon, there is also more to learn and is of
> essential
> value including and even beyond SCWCD, SCEA, IBM XML , , ,
>
> curt
>
> >>
>
>
>
>