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RE: any junior positions?
Actually, gartner reports wrote on average for a COBOL programmer:
1. it takes 12 months for a COBOL programmer to transition to a
"professional" Java Developer
2. costs around ~$57k (which isn't that much worse than other developers)
3. and 60% fail at making a successful transition to a "professional" level.
I'm not sure how they get the numbers and that certainly isn't the case for
everyone...but this is the kind of information that people read when they
consider such cases.
From: Alfreda Duffin
To: 'Cynthia Jeness'; firstname.lastname@example.org
Sent: 7/5/01 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: any junior positions?
What is your experience as a programmer?? None? It's wrong to say that
retraining COBOL programmers is "problematic". What type of training did
give them? Maybe it just wasn't done properly.
You say you taught computer science, just what did that entail? Did you
provide actual real-world problems that your students had to resolve?
your students have to install and maintain their own software on their
laptops? Did they have to use MS Project or some other tool to manage
projects? Did your school have a leading-edge system? I could go on and
but maybe it just depends on what school one attends. I don't think you
equate everyone's education to being the same.
Years of experience, even in the same task, brings you new ways to do
same tasks, so you are still learning. That's also another advantage of
working for different companies. I don't think one should jump around
either, but, if that's the trend and acceptable at the time, why pass up
OK, well I got that all off my chest. Have a good day.
From: Cynthia Jeness [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:09 PM
Subject: any junior positions?
Based on my experience as a hiring manager, I have enumerated my
below. These comments relate to hiring full-time employees and not
contractors. We generally did not employee contractors because we
long-term commitment from our employees. Also, there are always
every rule; however, it may be difficult to determine the "exceptional"
in an interview situation.
1. When it is difficult to find programmers, then we used every
available including recruiters.
2. When programmers are abundant, then we would use recruiters much
is not a function of whether recruiters are good or bad, it is just
If you get an employee through a recruiter then you pay a large fee:
first year salary. We would normally require the employee to be liable
pro rata share of the fee if he quit before 6 months. If an employee
unhappy with our situation, then this liability may force him to stay
may result in a poor work product.
3. In terms of experience, I consider C++ and Java basically equivalent
the job. I do not consider experience in school as equivalent to on the
experience. I have taught computer science in a university setting and
that that work and school are too different. I would not dismiss what
has done in school, but I would weight it less. At the same time,
certain advantages to hiring directly out of school which may outweigh
of experience. For example, consistent programming standard were very
important in our team-oriented environment. An experienced employee was
always willing to accept these standards while someone fresh out of
Mainframe Cobol experience is also problematic. There are some really
excellent mainframe programmers who transition to the O-O world and make
programmers. However, I again think that the two environments are very
different. I worked at a company where we tried to transition 12
Cobol programmers to C++ and the PC environment. Of the 12, only 2
made the transition. We invested a lot of time and effort in the
process and we really wanted the Cobol guys to succeed. In terms of
experience, I think that once you hit about 5 years, then additional
may not help a lot especially if it is doing the same type of task.
4. In terms of job hopping, regardless of the economic times, I would
favor people who stayed at a job longer.
Because of the economy, it is just difficult to break into the IT world
Things will get better, but it will take awhile. In the meantime, I
recommend sending your resume directly to the personnel office of as
companies as you can.